Discussion:
PC compatible smartphones?
(too old to reply)
John Doe
2010-12-07 07:39:22 UTC
Permalink
I have an iPhone 3G, it is okay. Would like a smart phone with
better connectivity to my PC. Looking at the Samsung Captivate
that is getting rave reviews, but apparently it is worse than the
iPhone for PC connectivity and the GPS is flaky. My new smartphone
should allow easy USB file transfer to and from my PC. Is anything
like that available?

Thanks.
--
I will keep looking, including reading a bit in this group.
r***@pen_fact.com
2010-12-08 16:36:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by John Doe
I have an iPhone 3G, it is okay. Would like a smart phone with
better connectivity to my PC. Looking at the Samsung Captivate
that is getting rave reviews, but apparently it is worse than the
iPhone for PC connectivity and the GPS is flaky. My new smartphone
should allow easy USB file transfer to and from my PC. Is anything
like that available?
Windows Phone 7, the latest from Microsoft, uses Exchange to connect
to PCs, which means connection via network, not USB.

Microsoft is still supporting Windows Mobile, but not for retail. You
can still get some devices. I am very happy with my LG Fathom, which
runs Windows Mobile 6.5.3. Fast and reliable as a PDA. Good as a
phone. USB connection. Very nice screen. Internal GPS works very well
with some programs, not at all with others. Bluetooth GPS is less
reliable.

Microsoft set up this newsgroup to support their phones, but dropped
support for newsgroups in favor of forums. So you are not so likely to
find info on other phones here. I'm definitely not able to help.
Post by John Doe
Thanks.
-----------------------------------------
To reply to me, remove the underscores (_) from my email address (and please indicate which newsgroup and message).

Robert E. Zaret, MVP
PenFact, Inc.
20 Park Plaza, Suite 400
Boston, MA 02116
www.penfact.com
John Doe
2010-12-08 18:53:43 UTC
Permalink
r_z_aret pen_fact.com wrote:

...
Post by r***@pen_fact.com
Windows Phone 7, the latest from Microsoft, uses Exchange to
connect to PCs, which means connection via network, not USB.
Oh brother. Thanks for the warning.

And it does not support copy and paste. No big surprise that
Microsoft is so corrupt that it is able to ignore the obvious
usefulness of copy and paste, probably just to ensure higher
profits by making the device unusable for copying data.

COPY AND PASTE IS A FUNDAMENTAL PART OF COMPUTING.

Any company who does not know that should not be in the computer
business. You can assume that Microsoft and others are
stifling/hindering the technology for the sake of greater profits.
Their efforts to constrain users might be successful here in the
United States, but not anywhere else.
Post by r***@pen_fact.com
Microsoft is still supporting Windows Mobile, but not for
retail. You can still get some devices. I am very happy with my
LG Fathom, which runs Windows Mobile 6.5.3. Fast and reliable as
a PDA. Good as a phone. USB connection. Very nice screen.
Internal GPS works very well with some programs, not at all with
others. Bluetooth GPS is less reliable.
Thanks for that information.
Post by r***@pen_fact.com
Microsoft set up this newsgroup to support their phones,
Technically speaking... Anyone can set up a newsgroup by asking
his (or her) server administrator to include a new UseNet group
name. And then the group gets accepted by other UseNet servers by
simply adding it to their list of groups.
Post by r***@pen_fact.com
but dropped support for newsgroups in favor of forums.
Again technically speaking... Microsoft does not support this or
any other UseNet group. Unless there are some copyright problems
with including "Microsoft" in the name of a UseNet group, anyone
could have started the set of groups that begin with "Microsoft".
And (with interest) they would have been propagated the exact same
way that they were after Microsoft began serving them.

The only thing Microsoft can do (or has done) is stop being a
server for UseNet. But there are many UseNet servers to choose
from, some of them free. The list of UseNet groups is entirely
independent from one server to another.

If you mean that Microsoft is no longer going to give MVPs extra
credit (or whatever Microsoft gives MVPs) for answering questions
here or in other "Microsoft" labeled UseNet groups, you might be
right.
--
Post by r***@pen_fact.com
So you are not so likely to
find info on other phones here. I'm definitely not able to help.
Post by John Doe
Thanks.
-----------------------------------------
To reply to me, remove the underscores (_) from my email address (and please indicate which newsgroup and message).
Robert E. Zaret, MVP
PenFact, Inc.
20 Park Plaza, Suite 400
Boston, MA 02116
www.penfact.com
r***@pen_fact.com
2010-12-09 16:36:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by John Doe
...
Post by r***@pen_fact.com
Windows Phone 7, the latest from Microsoft, uses Exchange to
connect to PCs, which means connection via network, not USB.
Oh brother. Thanks for the warning.
And it does not support copy and paste. No big surprise that
Major update coming soon will support copy and paste.
Post by John Doe
Post by r***@pen_fact.com
Microsoft is still supporting Windows Mobile, but not for
retail. You can still get some devices. I am very happy with my
LG Fathom, which runs Windows Mobile 6.5.3. Fast and reliable as
a PDA. Good as a phone. USB connection. Very nice screen.
Internal GPS works very well with some programs, not at all with
others. Bluetooth GPS is less reliable.
Thanks for that information.
Post by r***@pen_fact.com
Microsoft set up this newsgroup to support their phones,
Technically speaking... Anyone can set up a newsgroup by asking
his (or her) server administrator to include a new UseNet group
name. And then the group gets accepted by other UseNet servers by
simply adding it to their list of groups.
Which is how I'm getting it. But no one at Microsoft monitors it and
the traffic is _much_ lower. So answers are less likely.

-----------------------------------------
To reply to me, remove the underscores (_) from my email address (and please indicate which newsgroup and message).

Robert E. Zaret, MVP
PenFact, Inc.
20 Park Plaza, Suite 400
Boston, MA 02116
www.penfact.com
Todd Allcock
2010-12-09 17:30:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by John Doe
...
Post by r***@pen_fact.com
Windows Phone 7, the latest from Microsoft, uses Exchange to
connect to PCs, which means connection via network, not USB.
Oh brother. Thanks for the warning.
To be fair, and to complete the answer, by "Exchange" Rob means "Exchange
Activesync," not an Exchange server. This means any sync product or service
that uses EAS will also sync with WP7 (though, as Rob said, not via USB,
only over-the-air.) This means Google Calendar/Gmail Contacts and/or
Hotmail/Live. For example, I sync Outlook on my PC to my WP7 device by
syncing Outlook with a Hotmail account (via Microsoft's "Outlook Connector"
plug-in) which allows me to keep my three Outlook PCs, my WP7 and my WM6.x
devices all in sync wirelessly and automatically.
Post by John Doe
And it does not support copy and paste. No big surprise that
Microsoft is so corrupt that it is able to ignore the obvious
usefulness of copy and paste, probably just to ensure higher
profits by making the device unusable for copying data.
MS back-burnered CnP and other features to get WP7 released before
Christmas. Frankly, to me, the whole OS seems a little rushed to meet a
released deadline. CnP has been promised for the first update, due by the
end of January. On the bright side, unlike the old WinMo days, Microsoft
will release updates to end-users directly, a la iPhone, rather than rely on
the device OEMs to create customized ROMs for each device, so ALL devices
will get upgraded.
Post by John Doe
COPY AND PASTE IS A FUNDAMENTAL PART OF COMPUTING.
YES IT IS. WHY ARE WE SHOUTING?
Post by John Doe
Any company who does not know that should not be in the computer
business. You can assume that Microsoft and others are
stifling/hindering the technology for the sake of greater profits.
Their efforts to constrain users might be successful here in the
United States, but not anywhere else.
While I hate to argue with a perfect good and irrational conspiracy theory,
I fail to see how omitting CnP can increase profits, unless you are
misunderstanding what CnP on a mobile device is- we're talking about copying
and pasting bits of text, e.g. info from a webpage into an email, or copying
an URL into the browser address bar. How does preventing that boost
profits?

Believe me, after two months of using WP7, CnP is about 10 or 15 items down
the list of things I want MS to fix! ;)

WP7 is very iPhone like in many ways- all media has to synced to the device
from the desktop (using the Zune software, of course, rather than iTunes
like the iPhone.) There's no user-accessible file system- each app manages
its own files, and there's no PC-to-device file sync (other than for Zune
media,) requiring users either to email documents to and from the device, or
use a Sharepoint server. Third-party apps are "sandboxed" so they can't
access files created or used by other applications. To get a damn ebook
onto my WP7 device, I had to install a server app on my PC so the ebook app
could retrieve it from the server, because there's no way to copy it from PC
to device via USB, nor could the app retrieve it from an email attachment.
(This wasn't the ebook app developer's fault- he's constrained by the
limitations built into the OS.)

Like the iPhone, this OS was designed to be a "smartphone for dummies."
Which is fine if you're the target market for such a device, but I'm
apparently not, and still use my WM6.1 Sony X1 as my day-to-day phone.
Post by John Doe
Post by r***@pen_fact.com
Microsoft is still supporting Windows Mobile, but not for
retail. You can still get some devices. I am very happy with my
LG Fathom, which runs Windows Mobile 6.5.3. Fast and reliable as
a PDA. Good as a phone. USB connection. Very nice screen.
Internal GPS works very well with some programs, not at all with
others. Bluetooth GPS is less reliable.
Thanks for that information.
Post by r***@pen_fact.com
Microsoft set up this newsgroup to support their phones,
Technically speaking... Anyone can set up a newsgroup by asking
his (or her) server administrator to include a new UseNet group
name. And then the group gets accepted by other UseNet servers by
simply adding it to their list of groups.
Post by r***@pen_fact.com
but dropped support for newsgroups in favor of forums.
Again technically speaking... Microsoft does not support this or
any other UseNet group. Unless there are some copyright problems
with including "Microsoft" in the name of a UseNet group, anyone
could have started the set of groups that begin with "Microsoft".
And (with interest) they would have been propagated the exact same
way that they were after Microsoft began serving them.
The only thing Microsoft can do (or has done) is stop being a
server for UseNet. But there are many UseNet servers to choose
from, some of them free. The list of UseNet groups is entirely
independent from one server to another.
True, but in this case, it was Microsoft itself who created the
microsoft.*.* hierarchy. Once started and picked up by various news
servers, however, the groups now continue without Microsoft's support or
influence. That said, they're withering on the proverbial vine.
Post by John Doe
If you mean that Microsoft is no longer going to give MVPs extra
credit (or whatever Microsoft gives MVPs) for answering questions
here or in other "Microsoft" labeled UseNet groups, you might be
right.
Also true. Apparently Rob and I aren't overtly concerned with such "brownie
points," but the other MVPs have apparently fled for MS' web-based support
forums, and with good reason- more people are using them for support than
the "abandoned" Usenet groups. The bulk of the few non-spam posts here and
in the PocketPC group since June have been from four or five "regulars."
John Doe
2010-12-09 19:39:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by John Doe
...
Post by r***@pen_fact.com
Windows Phone 7, the latest from Microsoft, uses Exchange to
connect to PCs, which means connection via network, not USB.
Oh brother. Thanks for the warning.
To be fair...
<snipped lotsa yada yada yada>
If you were trying to justify Microsoft's actions, you should have
lied about it.
Post by John Doe
And it does not support copy and paste. No big surprise that
Microsoft is so corrupt that it is able to ignore the obvious
usefulness of copy and paste, probably just to ensure higher
profits by making the device unusable for copying data.
<snipped lotsa yada yada yada>
... unlike the old Wi Uo days, Microsoft will release updates to
end-users directly, a la iPhone, rather than rely on the device
OEMs to create customized ROMs for each device, so ALL devices
will get upgraded.
That sounds like some stuff that was in the big United States
versus Microsoft antitrust trial. I am not suggesting Microsoft is
violating antitrust law. See the Findings of Fact for details if
you want to know what I'm talking about.
Post by John Doe
COPY AND PASTE IS A FUNDAMENTAL PART OF COMPUTING.
Any company who does not know that should not be in the
computer business. You can assume that Microsoft and others are
stifling/hindering the technology for the sake of greater
profits. Their efforts to constrain users might be successful
here in the United States, but not anywhere else.
While I hate to argue with a perfect good and irrational
conspiracy theory,
You appear to be more of a liar than a technologist. You are
supposed to be technically inclined, and yet you refuse to admit
that COPY AND PASTE IS A FUNDAMENTAL PART OF COMPUTING.
<snipped lotsa yada yada yada>
Believe me,
I believe you are as much of a liar as you are a technologist.
after two months of using WP7, CnP is about 10 or 15 items down
the list of things I want MS to fix! ;)
Not according to what you have said in the past. But no telling
which is the truth, or maybe all are lies.

Copy and paste is not just a feature, it is a fundamental part of
computing. Copy, cut, and paste, are the primary functions of a
file manager, the most basic user program in a personal computer
operating system.

COPY AND PASTE IS A FUNDAMENTAL PART OF PERSONAL COMPUTING,
THE MOST FREQUENTLY USED PERSONAL COMPUTER OPERATIONS.

Devices that restrain personal computer functionality are unlikely
to succeed in the long run IMO. They certainly discourage those of
us who enjoy making full use of computing devices.
<snipped a mix of lies and information>
--
Path: news.astraweb.com!border5.newsrouter.astraweb.com!transit3.readnews.com!news-xxxfer.readnews.com!news-out.readnews.com!postnews3.readnews.com!not-for-mail
From: "Todd Allcock" <elecconnec AnoOspamL.com>
Newsgroups: microsoft.public.smartphone
References: <4cfde4aa$0$17371$c3e8da3$b280bf18 news.astraweb.com> <decvf617jida2mjueb77lr2novvb5bp5rc 4ax.com> <4cffd437$0$23983$c3e8da3$9b4ff22a news.astraweb.com>
In-Reply-To: <4cffd437$0$23983$c3e8da3$9b4ff22a news.astraweb.com>
Subject: Re: PC compatible smartphones?
Date: Thu, 9 Dec 2010 10:30:24 -0700
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Importance: Normal
X-Newsreader: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 14.0.8117.416
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V14.0.8117.416
Lines: 127
Message-ID: <4d01122b$0$9784$882e7ee2 usenet-news.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 4c097fe1.usenet-news.net
X-Trace: DXC=U6WZE?C1;\e_8ISJGVjg c^oXGM_6\KV`mX0AG3X_jUoCfK3X]de[Hk3AMon_g4`h`<Og<jPkP86bmX0AG3X_jUoEOZ1Ii`?dYfRYLoCh[Z_IoFLj]nWfmEkk
X-Complaints-To: abuse usenet-news.net
Todd Allcock
2010-12-10 03:19:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by John Doe
Post by John Doe
...
Post by r***@pen_fact.com
Windows Phone 7, the latest from Microsoft, uses Exchange to
connect to PCs, which means connection via network, not USB.
Oh brother. Thanks for the warning.
To be fair...
<snipped lotsa yada yada yada>
If you were trying to justify Microsoft's actions, you should have
lied about it.
What's the percentage (for me) in lying? I'm not trying to justify
anything. I'm simply stating that IMO WP7 was rushed to market before it
was really ready. That was MS' gamble, to try to gain some market
traction for the holidays, and they'll see if it pays off.
Post by John Doe
Post by John Doe
And it does not support copy and paste. No big surprise that
Microsoft is so corrupt that it is able to ignore the obvious
usefulness of copy and paste, probably just to ensure higher
profits by making the device unusable for copying data.
<snipped lotsa yada yada yada>
... unlike the old Wi Uo days, Microsoft will release updates to
end-users directly, a la iPhone, rather than rely on the device
OEMs to create customized ROMs for each device, so ALL devices
will get upgraded.
That sounds like some stuff that was in the big United States
versus Microsoft antitrust trial. I am not suggesting Microsoft is
violating antitrust law. See the Findings of Fact for details if
you want to know what I'm talking about.
Interesting point- I'm pretty sure MS wouldn't have had the stones to
release such a locked-down OS if Apple hadn't gotten away with it first.
The MS Martketplace being the only source of apps particularly irks me,
and would have really had the tech press all over them if they had come
up with it first.
Post by John Doe
Post by John Doe
COPY AND PASTE IS A FUNDAMENTAL PART OF COMPUTING.
Any company who does not know that should not be in the
computer business. You can assume that Microsoft and others are
stifling/hindering the technology for the sake of greater
profits. Their efforts to constrain users might be successful
here in the United States, but not anywhere else.
While I hate to argue with a perfect good and irrational
conspiracy theory,
You appear to be more of a liar than a technologist. You are
supposed to be technically inclined, and yet you refuse to admit
that COPY AND PASTE IS A FUNDAMENTAL PART OF COMPUTING.
When did I not admit it? I agreed with you, but you seem to want an
argument rather than a discussion. Again, I agree CnP is a fundamental
part of computing. My point was, as someone who has actually used the
WP7 OS rather than just read about it like you, that it has other, and IMO,

more serious, flaws than the omission of CnP. MS has promised to add CnP
shortly- it's the other things I mentioned that trouble me more, and I
don't know that they'll be addressed anytime soon, if ever.
Post by John Doe
<snipped lotsa yada yada yada>
Believe me,
I believe you are as much of a liar as you are a technologist.
after two months of using WP7, CnP is about 10 or 15 items down
the list of things I want MS to fix! ;)
Not according to what you have said in the past. But no telling
which is the truth, or maybe all are lies.
I'm not sure what you're talking about, but whatever.
Post by John Doe
Copy and paste is not just a feature, it is a fundamental part of
computing. Copy, cut, and paste, are the primary functions of a
file manager, the most basic user program in a personal computer
operating system.
Right, but as I said, WP7 has no file manager. The CnP functionality
being added, as MS has promised, will be for moving objects (text, maybe
pictures, etc.) between applications, NOT moving files around.
Post by John Doe
COPY AND PASTE IS A FUNDAMENTAL PART OF PERSONAL COMPUTING,
THE MOST FREQUENTLY USED PERSONAL COMPUTER OPERATIONS.
I believe you've covered that- I don't recall disagreeing with you. I
didn't like it when the iPhone couldn't do it for the first few years,
and I don't like it anymore that WP7 can't. It's one of several reasons
my HD7 is sitting SIM-less on my dresser instead of being in my hand
right now. Again, my point is even if MS waived a magic wand and added
CnP tonight, there'd still be major functionality missing from WP7.
Post by John Doe
Devices that restrain personal computer functionality are unlikely
to succeed in the long run IMO. They certainly discourage those of
us who enjoy making full use of computing devices.
Tell that to Apple- it seems to have seriously hurt sales of iOS devices,
eh? Apple knew, and MS found out watching them sell 100 million iOS
devices, that "those of us who enjoy making full use of computing
devices" aren't a large enough market segment to cater to. Those of us
who read email on the go and feel the entire world hangs on every pithy
word we upload to Facebook are. WP7 obviously wasn't designed for you or
I.


I don't have to like a design decision to understand why it was
implemented, however. WP7 is a slick little OS that the target marget
will probably enjoy.


Either way, feel free to rant on without me, friend- all six people still
reading this group will appreciate it, I'm sure.

Loading...